Shadetreeprogrammer (Customer) asked a question.
I have a proven product I'm considering developing further IF I can get around a single important bottleneck.
I have the mechanics done, proof the equipment works exactly as needed. However, the decimal numeric entry using a traditional HMI just doesn't cut it.
My need is to have an always available numeric entry/keypad (preferably touchscreen or 10 key external keypad/keyboard) for the dimensional measurement entry.
The purpose of the numeeic entry is to enter dimensional linear cut off lengths for a linear servo axis and subsequent cut-off saw cutting in which all logic is handled by a click plus. The future ability to import a cut list file using a standardized file format like .CSV, or XLS, etc. would be icing on the cake.
My question is: is there any feasible/possible way to create an extremely fast on demand numeric entry that is ready and available at any time to enter a numeric linear dimension? If so how would you suggest? Seems every HMI and HMI virtulization software I have tried and researched requires entry using its built in keypad.
I'm just not sure of any possible ways I can drastically improve the numeric entry over the traditonal off the shelf industrial HMI.
And an even bigger question is, say I cant accomplish the numeric entry needs using anything that's already on the market...where do I start with locating a firm or someone who could develop custom HMI software and accomplish the needed behavior with a click plus, etc.?
It is preferred to use a widows PC and off the shelf HMI virtualiation software OR a custom PC program, but im truly open to any ideas.
Thanks in advance for any help, suggestions, or advice you may have.
The numeric Entry object on Cmore can do exactly what you're asking. Configure it as Object Style 2 - this allows the entry to come from an external USB keypad.
Then when you tap on the control, you can type on a physical keypad and hit enter (on the external keypad) to accept the data input.
If you don't want to have to tap to select the entry field on the screen, on the "Option" tab, there is an "Object Focus Option". This allows you to assign a tag and when that tag goes true (and stays true), you can type on the keyboard, and it will force the data into that specific numeric entry. That way when it is time to enter a new length, you can just type without any other action. When the PLC senses new data, it can turn off the object focus tag. Alternatively, if there is only one numeric entry on that screen, you can set up an event to say when the current screen number is xx turn on the focus bit. A second event to turn that bit off when you leave the screen.
As for the second half of your question, The C2-NRED module for the Click Plus would allow several ways to import a cut list. You can create a web page that allows a series of points to be entered, or you can upload a CSV file. Another approach would be to connect to an external DB like SQL or Azure in the cloud and read data out of that database. The NodeRed approach requires a knowledge of HTML and JavaScript, but you can use AI tools like Claude Code, or Copilot to do most of that heavy lifting for you.
Many thanks for the reply and help!
I'll look into both suggestions for the hardware HMI options. I was not aware this input functionality was already present in the Cmore HMI. An external keypad is a consideration. I have tried the headless HMI on a different application and getting it to work properly with a common touch display was difficult, and it wasn’t received as well as the dedicated touch HMI.
Regarding the PC based non-hardware HMI approach:
A PC based control is really very important for this application. Remoting into a machine PC and having the full HMI environment as well as the ability to fully access/control the connected PLC(s) is invaluable.
Here’s a product suggestion: A virtualized HMI system that costs as much as or less than a physical HMI, I truly think ADC should consider developing such a software package and hardware interface (if needed), to turn an ordinary Windows PC into a virtual HMI. Not really full blown SCADA scale, just a machine at time, just like an HMI at a time approach. Sure, dedicated HMI hardware will always have its place, and there's always the HMI hardware sales aspect of the big picture, however a virtualized HMI environment opens up so many opportunities for an OEM. From troubleshooting, to updating features and bugs, to end user support, the list is endless.
ADC HMI software using an individual seat or bulk licensing model would be a great compliment to the HMI hardware ADC already offers.
With that said, does anyone have any suggestions for a PC software HMI based approach that is reasonably priced (similar to an HMI cost or less) for a license at a time or a bulk licensing approach?
We had done numerous similar projects, where the operator selected the size to cut lumber, and the controls would automatically move the blade to cut the selected size lumber. We used push buttons, up to 10, with easily-replaceable nametags. Very quickly, the operator could push the button to load in the selected size. This prevented mis-typing on the actual decimal size by the operator and the PLC performed the math to account for saw kerf. The C-more would allow the manager to enter the decimal size associated with each button and the saw kerf. This only worked because the decimal sizes did not change that often. The production runs of the given 10 sizes would last for weeks, or months. This would not work if your sizes are continually changing.
I am in full agreement with your request for a "PC software HMI". We absolutely loved the Lookout Direct that ADC had offered some years ago. It was affordable for the smaller customers, did not require high-level programming, but provided the PC-based, basic SCADA they needed. The trending, logging, error-handling, and recipe functions were great.
K Price has a good suggestion. If the cut lengths are standard, you can use the recipe button to write preset values. In fact, the recipe button allows you to write one Tag value to another. That way you could have one screen to set up predefined lengths and on another screen you have a set of recipe buttons that each write one of those lengths as the cut length. You can even place a numeric display on top of each recipe button so you can display the length that you are selecting.
Thanks for your feedback!
Our application sounds very similar, however the cut lengths are always changing and varying and so the quick decimal entry is a necessity. I do feel like there is a big missed opportunity with a light scale SCADA PC based HMI from ADC.
I'm not finding much out there in terms of options, at least not much that has a reasonable price tag. I think an ADC PC based HMI, possibly even a fully functional emulated Cmore HMI environment inside windows would be a substancial compliment to the ADC range of controllers. I'm sure though there would likely need to be some complimenting communication hardware to best fit into the range of different controllers and PLC communication architectures...but all in all, I think it would would be vastly popular and a great compliment to their already solid HMI hardware.
For reference, I'm looking to create a XXX.XXX numeric entry similar to this example. The ability to freely enter decimal inch using an onscreen number pad and an always available target dimension, as well as fractional/decimal shortcut buttons to append to the hand entered whole inch dimension for a little faster entry, if desired by the machine operator.
I agree the quickest entry would be as ADC suggested, "entry to come from an external USB keypad". But if an industrial environment, or the operator wears heavy gloves, a pot connected to a signal conditioner to an analog input could allow numeric entry. The operator would turn the knob while watching the number on the HMI. This would save wear on the HMI, or a keypad.
A similar product to what I have described is already on the market and their early versions used an android tablet as an HMI, all newer versions appear to use an inexpensive windows PC tablet, both glass screen. Their system uses their proprietary PC control software... We're just not at that point, and wouldn't even know where to start down that rabbit hole either.
I have not seen or heard of any issues regarding gloves from those already out in the field, but with a PC and ordinary keyboard could be an easy implementation should there be touch issues or screen durability issues. I have been invloved with some other equipment with capacitive and resistive screens and they all have thier pros and cons.
The stumbling block for now seems to be gaining the input/control functionality I need, working inside a Windows environment.
That is a nice screen layout, and looks similar to projects I have done, adjusting for board sizes. But this could be done with the C-more. It would require some PLC programming to convert the numeric button pushes into your real number. For example, saving the numbers before the decimal button, the 1st number would be multiplied by 100, added to the 2nd number multiplied by 10, added to the 3rd number, etc. And the calculations would be done upon the "Enter" button push, the calculated number would be saved to your real number register, and the buffer registers would be cleared. Like I said, would require some PLC programming, but certainly do-able. I agree that there could be durability issues, especially with PCs and Tablets, not designed for industrial environments. Even the C-more, which is bullet-proof, will show screen wear if pushed hundreds of times a day.